You know what they say...

Don't feed the trolls that live under the East Mind bridge.

Should not have responded to the trolls.

Apparently, inspiration = theft.

Well, Eastern Mind = shits.

I was going to start mocking that text too, but then I read it and I realized who authored it and surely I don't want to knock heads with that guy.

Also that quote is a bit out of context. I hardly call that well-written piece "trolling". But I guess it's an easy way to dismiss contrary opinions nowadays.

I reviewed my Ico and Colossus photo album and I understand exactly what he means. He took it to heart, or seems to have, which is understandable. We all feel passionately about such subjects and I don't like it anymore than the next guy when some serious game is recycled into something else. The images speak volumes about that.

I think Tower of Shadows might become an interesting game, people sure seem to be loving it. I hope it gets to this side of the world --- as for the issue of plagiarism I won't take sides and remain neutral.

I don't see what that has to do with Ico/SotC.. is it because they used a bloom filter and lots of earth tones?

Shadow Physics, on the other hand..

I'd be more careful with words here. I've often seen GSW publish posts about Eastern Mind articles: so if Emind is shitty what does that say about GSW?

I guess I'd say it's mostly visual: the locations, the stone textures, the bridge leading to the tower (there's a shot just like that one in Colossus), the orange sun lighting (which I never saw in a game before Ico), architectural design in what has to do with rows of arches, ruins, degradated columns, vegetation, etc. The shadow's animation reminded me a lot of Ico walking around.

The steampunk part seems rather different however. But I checked Hudson's site and 4 out of 5 pictures are Ico simpatico. I can almost see where its Team Ico counterparts are in both games. Strange :)

Shadow Physics would be a very good influence but its harder to determine whether the authors knew about that one game (Ico is famous worldwide).

I'm still not ready to say it is plagiarism but it does seem odd, as a tendency pointed out by the author, that so many games seem to be refering to Ico or Colossus at early stages so as to draw attention: everyone who has been at a Team Ico forum know how much fans are always watching which games are similar.

I think the bloke at easternmind is an arrogant son of a bitch. Who is he, Mr. know-it-all, trolling like that about this precious little game?

Clearly the games have nothing in similar, mostly in what has to do with aesthetics - in fact I recommend that he should go to the nearest ophthalmologist for treatment. I wonder if he even played Ico to begin with. The basterd.

Maybe this will help?

http://yfrog.com/5jcomp1rj

I read the article yesterday over at N4G (shame on me, yeah I know) and I was frankly very surprised by people's extremist reaction. People bash games everyday. Here's an article that's sane and surely not meaningless trolling: and yet it seems people are simply programmed to respond this way in either case. Most don't even care to read beyond the title I believe.

@ dieubussy

hahaha, there's my genuine giggle o'the day! tks

"I've often seen GSW publish posts about Eastern Mind articles: so if Emind is shitty what does that say about GSW?"

The criticism clearly wasn't just directed at EM.

----

The problem is not whether the writing is sane or "not meaningless". The problem is that the argument is bullshit. Glenn Beck may be able to pull out coherent sentences behind his blubbering facade - it doesn't make them correct.

It's a brazen unsupported claim, made with misplaced conviction and plenty of internet indignation - that has naturally illicited the an equal and opposite reaction.

Tower of Shadow is not Limbo of the Lost. Ico and SoC cannot "own" entire visual styles. Did all Cubists have a "brazen willingness to copy, paste and viciously manipulate the aesthetics" of Picasso? The Dadaists were engaged in "deception" were they? Ripping off Duchamp right?

Why do you think the entire Fantasy canon riffs off Tolkien? Because it was good. If you produce something great, such those "precious little games", they're going to inspire others.

Maybe you should learn to get over that, instead of the QQ.

A small observation:

Duchamps was merely one among several dada artists and surely not the original dadaist - there's not such thing since in fact. The anti-art movement came to life in several different countries shortly before the post-WWI period, then blending into its “international form”. Picasso was also admired and respected among fellow cubists. In art, when a current is created it requires the selective approach of each artist to the rules defining that artistic norm. So many surrealists revered Breton, Arp, Éluard or Ernst; and Dadaists revered Picabia, Duchamps, Janco or Ball. Because, frankly, Wilfredo Lam's paintings are so similar to Tanguy's; and Magritte's work is so similar to Ernst that sometimes I have troubles telling them apart...!

There's a world of difference between traditional arts and present day videogames. I know it’s tempting but we must weigh our arguments before putting them into words. I don't think this is a case where the example you used makes any sense but, then again, you're free to disagree with that as well.

About the text: I won't be making any more comments about it, disagree if you like I'm glad it caused such strong reactions among readers - assuming that you read the text and not just the one quote used here, that is. Thank you.

Let's end it here why won't we? You heard the man, he's using Miyazaki as inspiration, so all my claims, as that of those who agree with me, are empty and purposeless now, right?

dieubussy, I do not believe that Tsuchihashi's claims that he was inspired by Miyazaki invalidates your points at all. I used your quote because it was the best criticism I found of the game's similarities to Ico and because it served to contrast what Tsuchihashi stated were his non-Team Ico influences.

Hey there Eric. I was being ironic, of course, given all the criticism towards that little footnote I wrote at Easternmind.

Not surprisingly, I got a lot of hate mail and that made me question my initial opinion - to the point where I began to doubt myself. But every time I look at those pictures in the website I am again reminded of the reasons why I felt the similarities to Ico and Colossus were too much for me to bear.

Tsuchihashi's statement is clear enough: Miyazaki was a great influence. That in itself does not invalidate anything. In fact I didn’t expect anything else from his statement. In his place I would be ashamed to mention Ueda, in fact, since the semblances are already so notorious to anyone who’s mildly acquainted with his games, knows a little about videogame history and what those games offered to this medium that none had before.

Now, personally, I took it as a sign of bad faith, also in the context of an increasing number of games whose references to Team Ico games are below subtle or clever. And I personally think that such exercises contribute in vulgarizing the signature aesthetics the Team has worked so hard to attain over the years: precisely the wrong game anyone can pick to vulgarize. Otherwise, as stated, I'm all for intertextuality in games, all for witty references. I think I've made that point quite clear for any visitor of my 'pixels' blog.

As for why this claim of mine is spawning such radical and aggressive responses… I think people know in their hearts and minds that whoever wrote that text knew what he was saying (agreeing or not) and that in itself is a little menacing. You don’t have to dig too deep in order to find all sorts of “trolling” and “bashing” about this or that game. And who cares to reply to these claims anymore, right? That so many felt like answering back makes me feel like the article did just what it was supposed to. I don't wish to extend this subject any further as it has taken enough of my time and there's a whole lot more I need to worry about, gameswise.

Thank you, again, for mentioning it here in this great blog space.

Hear Hear.

Whether or not Picasso invented Cubism or Duchamp invented Dada is irrelevant (they didn't).

You say my examples make no sense, yet with your art history digression, you understand the point entirely. You just claim, without any justification, that there is some demarcation gulf between video games and "traditional" art which somehow makes it impossible for cross pollination of ideas to ethically exist in the video game world. That's just bullshit, it happens in every medium.

I would have been happy to leave my point alone, but having seen your closing comment, you've shown that you still don't get it.

The point is, I don't give a shit about Tower of Shadow. The creators influences are irrelevant. What I, and many others took issue with, was your baseless assertion that creators can own entire styles. And that just by evoking such styles, creators were guilty of plagiarism.

That's not true, regardless of what your local copyright lobbyist or patent lawyer may lead you to believe. The exchange of ideas leads to new ones, iterations expand boundaries, and promotes competition.

Treating works with such fan like reverence stilts progress. Ideas are there to be played with, evoked, recreated and broken down. Nothing is sacred, not even your precious little games.

Empty and purposeless now, right?

Art Historians will be Art Historians, forgive me.

Well then, thanks for clearing it up for me. A very quick note: on a deep level I think that some things should be sacred unless there is some very strong motive why one should question that particular status which is filled with great responsibilities, often too hard to follow of course.

You yourself mentioned Duchamp and surely you're acquainted with his Mona Lisa redux? Normally any of Da Vinci's works would have to be considered - due to hard earned self-merit - as 'sacred' works of Art or even the excellence of Mankind. But at the time, not purely for the sake of Art expression but because of society's structure and the oppression of a wealthy class, the added moustache acted as a liberating act against the old ways. And it was controversial but made a lot of good. It was a strike at the heart of the same people who had waged war because of financial interests. And it was parody; it was shameless exhibitionism meant to cause laughs after a period of death and disgrace.

In the case of videogames, there are few auteurs to begin with. So it is only natural that true reverence is seldom found and for that reason I think there's a large abyss dividing arts and this often artistic but essentially unruly and tasteless business where everything goes. I'm not one to side with that philosophy. You on the other hand seem to enjoy it – fine by me. What can be done? Need something be done?

Take The Path for instance: its creators had no problems admitting how Ico was vital to them as inspiration and the influences are unmistakable in their work so far. I praised the game for that same reason. Why? Because they did what is, in my view, right and commendable. They assimilated Ico properly because they pondered about it beyond the mere exercise of simple cut and paste. And they used the influences judiciously in a game that has a great merit on his own – which I think Kage no Tou might have as well, and I surely give a shit about it.

I’m being far too demanding, I know. Coming from Arts and realizing the Art potential of this medium I expect too much and find myself disappointed too often. Best thing to do is: don’t mind me.